Interesting observation re America and UK ?

[miker]

fact is, the events of September 11th would be contrued as an act of WAR by any nation

the problem is defining the enemy and knowing exactly when the war is 'won'

why do you think the focus has shifted to the Taliban? Because their forces are finite and can be defeated, so that the public can be seen that 'justice' has been done and the politicians can get back to maintaining the status quo

this is a modern war, and like everything else, it has shifted a gear since the 20th century -- ie, the enemy is not adhering to the 'rules' and the big bold USA has been caught on its soft underbelly


------------------
N305UDB M173UBM
(B55VOR)
(WGO963W)

[Chance1234]

see the news this morning, bush is talking to studio exes in hollywood,

and also stopthief have to ask this, you r solution what do we do in the mean time, do you think the taliban are jsut going to wait ?

tell you what though anyone see the spiderman trailer when it had the cobweb across the WTC with the helicopter shame it had to be cut

------------------
www.5ylac.s5.com

[hairbrain]

I think Americans are aware that their foreign policy of ...bombing arab countries, starving their citizens, funding extremists from Isreal to Bin Boy, deposing legitimately elected governments with puppet dictators, and ceaselessly destabilising the whole middle east in the name of `stabilisation`.... has contributed to the situation they've been put in and a world of increasing unsafety.

But first their gonna fight this war on terrorism. Once the immediate threat is out of the way then they'll start addressing that matter. Of course the war on terrorism could last many many years, possibly decades, and will involve lots of ...bombing arab countries, starving their citizens, funding extremists from Isreal to Bin Boy, deposing legitimately elected governments with puppet dictators, and ceaselessly destabilising the whole middle east in the name of `stabilisation`.... but after that things should be just hunky dory.

------------------

[Chance1234]

remember a lot of these countrys a lot of the welath of the country is controlled by a small minority , something like kuwait 99% of the countrys wealth is in one guys hands,

re on that hollywood thing, tenner says will see Rambo part 5.




------------------
www.5ylac.s5.com

[Chance1234]

also another point, re the power of the media

the northen alliance hasnt jsut suddelnly popped out of nowhere, afghanastian wasnt jsut a hostile place before this started out , the middle east wenrt all singing laong as happy bunnys.



------------------
www.5ylac.s5.com

[stop_thief]

Chance, you are right about the middle east not being picture-perfect before we stepped in-- but who are we to decide what picture perfect is? They may seem to be imploding, but if they don't want us, we have no right to intrude. America especially has this mindset of assuming the rest of the world MUST think like them. Bin Laden volunteered to fight Saddam Hussein with the Mujaheddin (spl?) but Saudi Arabi (I believe) voted for America over him. Foreign, unwelcome forces come charging in to do a job many Arabs felt they could handle themselves.

To answer your question about the solution, in the meantime we do exactly what I said AS WELL as fight the people who need to be fought. What I mean is: continue with the freezing of terrorist finacial assets, capture all the internal terrorists, ruin Bin Laden's links to the outside. Bin Laden is as helpless as a newborn babe if he doesn't have contact outside of Afghanistan. Miker is absolutely right. The Taliban is the most visible target. They may be disagreeable to us "civilized" folk, but in reality, they never have posed a direct threat worthy of bombing.
So why violence? Why can't we fight terrorism as the advanced creatures we are at the same time as re-evaluating and changing why we made them so mad to begin with? If you are starving and I give you back the cookie I stole, you probably won't claw my face for food anymore.



------------------

[stop_thief]

a quick, semi-related question: I heard a war protester smacked Price Charles with a flower? I live in the US, so I don't know much about the royal family...but their status seems absurd to me. Is it futile to direct one's protest against such a facade of power, or do they actually have political influence?

------------------

[stop_thief]

Ahh, but the problem is that we in power define who the terrorists are and who they aren't.

Were the freedom fighters in South Africa terrorists? Were those in the underground resistance against the Nazis terrorists? No, of course not, because we believe in their cause.

I'm not justifying any violence on either part-- but to Bin Laden, America is a terrorist. Who said there were rules to war? Nuke a city, fly a plane into a building. War is War. And War will continue unless we seek alternatives that do not fall into the traditional category of war...

And yes, Thousandth, we ARE appeasing our vain nature. If we are so blind as to not understand and act approriately, we have been staring in the mirror too damn long.

As a side note, I'm going to New York this weekend to tour NYU. Should be rather interesting to see it all firsthand...



------------------

[Matt J Heaton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, helvetica, sans serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by machead:
the thing is I'm British so why are we standing shoulder to shoulder with a nation that funded and supported the IRA, did the US send troops to Northern Ireland after Dumblane or The Brighton bombing etc.

also revenge is about vanity,why should we sacrifice men women and murder innocent Afgani's for the sake of someones vanity?

as for the 5th aircraft who knows, during the confusion of the initial events maybe they double counted an aircraft or shot one down by accident(lets face it the US have a history of freindly fire misadventures)?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dunblane? What did that have to do with the IRA?
It isn't America who funds the IRA, it is a group of Irish Americans within the country. There are supporters of terrorism in every country including Britain. In fact Britain is known for being a soft place for terrorists to hide, it is thought that this is the reason that we haven't been targetted...yet.


And don't think that Britain doesn't benefit from the middle-eastern conflicts. We buy their fuel after all.


------------------


[This message has been edited by Matt J Heaton (edited November 08, 2001).]

[machead]

perhaps you could explain to me why we failed to extradite suspected IRA terrorists to the UK from the US,when the British govornment wanted to.
Did Britain bomb the US for the failure to extradite suspects,or harbouring terrorists?
no

DOUBLE STANDARDS

------------------
MACHEAD
http://www.apple.com